Meet the Team: Martyn Goss, Director

Each month we’ll introduce you to the individuals behind the pound sign who are working hard to make the project not just a reality but a resounding success! This month I caught up with Exeter Pound Director, Martyn Goss at the Old Deanery. We talked about the success of the venture since the launch, and what the currency means to Martyn on a personal level.

Hi Martyn! When did you first get involved with Exeter Pound?

I’ve always been interested in community economics and a long time ago I was involved in things like cooperatives, setting up credit unions and Exeter LETS (Local Exchange Trading System) too, so I had my antenna in this direction. When we began to move forward with Exeter Pound I was involved from the very beginning, in 2013.

What attracted you to the cause?

I think it’s a good example of empowering local people and the local community. We can be easily trapped within money systems and the money supply chain, and one way of beginning to prise open the links is to encourage people to take more control over their futures. The other element is how it helps to promote city identity. The notes, for example, express key aspects of city culture, history and geography. It ticked the right boxes for me, both on the economic and the social fronts.

And could you tell us about your role in Exeter Pound?

I’m trying to promote Exeter Pound with the faith communities because that ties in with my professional position. We’re also trying to include diverse minority communities which may or may not be related to faith. We have several examples of independent Chinese takeaways, kebab shops, and Indian restaurants, all of which contribute quite significantly to the independent economy of Exeter. We’d like to draw some of those in much more and I suspect we’ll have quite a big drive next year, especially if we can relate it to Exeter Respect Festival. We had a presence there this year, but it was before the notes were available.

The festival is increasingly popular with locals, as well as with those who travel from further afield. Perhaps Exeter Pound could use the festival’s momentum?

Yes, if we can encourage stalls at Respect Fest to accept the notes next year, that would be a good start. Twenty thousand people are visiting the site over the two days, so it’s worth pursuing! I’m also the person who takes the lead with sporting activities, particularly around our relationship with the Exeter Chiefs Rugby Club and Exeter City Football Club, both of which have been very supportive. I do think it would be good to extend beyond sports into other areas and, in terms of recreation, it would be good to get some of the theatres signed up.

New traders are signing up almost daily, and feedback has been positive so far. However, what are your thoughts regarding concerns that the excitement is wearing off?

I think that’s one of the challenges we face at the moment. We’ve benefited from the currency being new so far; it’s caught the public’s imagination and gained support, but the issue for us now is how we maintain that momentum. The big plan is to go digital next year and that will be a huge boost for various reasons but, meanwhile, we need to maintain and develop what we’ve started. We will be taking advantage of the push towards Christmas by encouraging people to buy the notes as gifts in some way or another. I suspect there’ll still be a sense of novelty and I think people will buy packs of notes or even individual notes like they would with vouchers, because, after all, this is an incentive voucher scheme.

‘We can be easily trapped within money systems and the money supply chain, and one way of beginning to prise open the links is to encourage people to take more control over their futures’

They are lovely and personal to Exeter: a friend of mine recently asked if I could send some to her, as she no longer lives here.

Yes and you can understand why people would want to collect them, although It’s not ideal for the future of the system because we need to make sure they’re circulated. So, while people may wish to have some at home, we would also encourage them to buy some more and spend them! The other thing, of course, is that until we hit the three-year mark we won’t know which notes of these are going to be redeemable and which are not.

How does one measure it in terms of success? I imagine it’s difficult to do because there is no frame of reference; it hasn’t been done here before.

We’re learning as we go. One way, of course, would be to mark the notes and then track them. I think it would be worth trying at some point just to see how they circulate. So the first note could be spent in a grocery shop or cake shop, for example, who would use the note to pay their business rates. The Council could then use the money to pay Christmas bonuses to staff who spend it at a local farm, who finally re-spend it in the first shop.

It would also be a fantastic way of proving to those in Exeter who still aren’t entirely convinced that it’s working.

And it makes money because it comes back again and again and again! That doesn’t happen usually; you pay a tenner and it’s gone but you’ve no idea where.

The other question I hear is: yes, it’s a great incentive for traders but what’s the benefit to the consumer? Could that be the next area to look at?

Yes of course. The scheme isn’t necessarily for individual consumers because we’re trying to support a community economy: you’re supporting individual businesses in particular. That’s a benefit to all consumers in the longer term, but it isn’t an immediate benefit.

‘There’s a lot of negativity and scepticism in our society at the moment and Exeter Pound is a brilliant example of individuals making a positive difference without it costing the earth’

That’s a potential problem, of course; we all tend to want to see the benefits sooner rather than later.

Yes, we tend to want something here and now and immediately. But, if in a few years Exeter was to have no independent businesses the city and its consumers would have lost an enormous amount. Unfortunately, it’s very difficult to make that a selling point at this stage. I think a lot of people do pick up on the fact that it’s local and that it supports identity and pride.

How do your activities for Exeter Pound differ from your other roles?

In my view, we are very much in a transitional social period in human history and we need to move towards a low carbon culture in the next generation or two. That presents all sorts of opportunities and, as a part of that, I think we’re going to have to develop more localised systems for living together, including trading; travelling; purchasing; energy; food and water, all of which cut across quite a lot of my work in different ways. Anything that can energise and bring together people at a local level in terms of the wider community ticks a lot of boxes for me, so I’m not sure there is a great deal of difference. We need to rebuild trust and doing that at a local level is a key building block.

What do you think is the most important work that Exeter Pound does?

I think it has something to do with capturing the public’s imagination and the fact that it’s positive. There’s a lot of negativity and scepticism in our society at the moment and Exeter Pound is a brilliant example of individuals making a positive difference without it costing the earth or getting people to go out of their way. It also enables people to start talking about money and the value it holds. As Oscar Wilde once said, ‘people know the price of everything but the value of nothing.’ Exeter Pound starts the conversation about how much we pay and how we value our priorities in life.

Of which contribution or achievement are you most proud?

Seeing the currency in operation! We’ve had a dream about this for a few years, we’ve wondered if it will become real, and to be able to take Exeter Pound notes out of my wallet is very exciting! I also think having the Cathedral and the theologian Richard Hooker (the statue of whom can be found in front of the Cathedral) on the £20 note is interesting because traditionally scientists or inventors are depicted on notes. It’s a shame it’s not a woman theologian though.

And is it true we’ve got the only £15 note in the world?

Yes, it’s the only one in the world! A special for the Rugby World Cup!

‘Exeter Pound is a great example of a longer-term antidote to poverty because it’s a different way of spreading the wealth and recognising people’s skills and abilities at a local level’

It’s another thing that adds to that personal touch! Does anyone in your life play a role in supporting your involvement? In providing you inspiration?

I’ve been encouraged by talking to other professional organisations and finding that people like the idea. I spend a lot of my career talking about quite challenging issues like unemployment, climate change, refugees, crime, and debt and one of the great things about talking about Exeter Pound is that it’s so positive. It’s something that people can appreciate in all sorts of ways and I think for me that’s been important.

Topics like poverty, crime, and debt are potentially quite upsetting to talk about. Do you think Exeter Pound will help bridge the gap between the two, and get the conversation started about these other issues?

Yes. Exeter Pound is a great example of a longer-term antidote to poverty because it’s a different way of spreading wealth and recognising people’s skills and abilities at a local level. It’s also a good example of Gandhi’s comment: ‘be the change you wish to see in the world’ and I think Exeter Pound encompasses that, which is inspiring.

What would you like to say to those who are unfamiliar with the project?

I think Exeter Pound demonstrates that we can live out the dreams that inspire us, we can make them happen. I was at an event recently when someone said we need to encourage people to follow their passions and their interests to energise change, and that’s exactly what Exeter Pound can do!

Is there an anecdote about Exeter Pound that moved you?

I’m not sure it’s an anecdote but when I’m talking about Exeter Pound I’ll use water as an analogy. Water is a life-giving element that gives more life when it flows slowly and takes life away when it flows quickly. Imagine a shower of rain hitting the trees, drips coming off the leaves and gradually falling into the grass and the soil, slowly seeping into aquifers and out to sea over some time. Then think of a storm: heavy rain hitting a corrugated iron roof, water coming straight off into gutters, out into storm drains, and then washed away. At each point in which that water flows, it takes soil, animals, and plants with it. That’s a big difference compared to the natural slowness of water, and it’s the same with money. If allowed to circulate slowly it replicates the natural water cycle.

That was lovely! I think it’s another way of getting people to consider the benefits from a side that they may not have considered before.

Yes, and getting people to talk about the notes also acts in a similar way, because it makes you think about how you’re spending. Adam and I did an assembly at the Cathedral School a few months ago, just after the Pound had launched. The children were asked to bring in a pound which they then swapped for an Exeter Pound. They had to decide what to spend it on and where, and it was a great exercise to do! It was a great way to get everyone talking.

‘The greater the diversity of businesses that participate in Exeter Pound, the better for the whole scheme’

What are your hopes for Exeter Pound in the short and long term?

The big development for next year will be the digital currency because that will up our game considerably. In the longer-term future, I would like to see an extension of the different sectors. Transport, in particular, is one industry we do need. The greater the diversity of the businesses that participate in Exeter Pound, the better for the whole scheme. In effect, we’ve created pieces of paper which have no value outside of Exeter, but within the city, they’ve got quite a high value and the more traders and spenders that join in, the higher the value will become.

Why do you like living in Exeter?

I love the river and the surrounding countryside. You can see the hills in the distance, and beyond that to Dartmoor, even to the coast sometimes. I think that’s what I like about Exeter: it’s a place of interaction between the countryside and the city, between different communities. It’s a rich place, relatively rich economically, but it’s also rich in culture, interaction, and relationships. It’s a good place but I’m biased as I was born here!

And finally, could you tell us about your hobbies and interests?

I do pantomime! I’m in Robin Hood and the Babes in the Wood, out at Pinhoe: I’m playing the baddy, the Sheriff of Nottingham. We started in June and the performances are during the second week in January so it takes a good while to rehearse. I also love photography, especially taking pictures of wildlife and natural history. I like being out in the countryside, although I’m no Bear Grylls! I also like languages; as a family, we collect Asterix the Gaul books in different languages. I think we’ve got about sixty, but there are a lot more than that. Wouldn’t it be wonderful to see an edition of ‘Asterix and the Exeter Pound’?!

It certainly would! Thanks very much to Martyn for taking the time to talk today. Don’t forget to check out next month’s newsletter to meet another member of the team!

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Disclaimer: The details in this interview were correct when first published in the Exeter Pound Newsletter on 12th November 2015. I wrote it while volunteering as Communications Editor for the Exeter Pound Project CIC, which was discontinued in 2018. Please click here to read about the project’s aims. For more information about my role in the project, please check out my LinkedIn profile.